Germany's Oscar submission long list: Enfant Terrible

Jochen Schropp: First of all, I finally feel like an actor again. In my mid-twenties I reached the point where I had only one audition a year and was never even invited to the second round. That was awful. That’s why I became interested in hosting a TV show. But I kept acting; often in rather shallow roles. I enjoyed them, too, but it’s different to work with a director like Oskar Roehler and alongside Oliver Masucci. At the same time, of course, I had a lot of respect for the work at hand – and for doing it justice.

You’d only met Oliver Masucci briefly before.
JS: Yes, years ago at a film premiere. I was the emcee and he was the artist. Of course, at the beginning of the whole “Enfant Terrible” project, I hoped that he would help me along. On the first day I noticed that he accepted me. But at first, to me Oliver had that unpredictability about him that distinguished Fassbinder, too.
Oliver Masucci: I had to work you over first. After the first scene, I said to you, still in character, “You did a really great job. That was supposed to be played by an amateur.” (Laughs) Remember?

JS: Yes.
OM: But I think you’re so great in the role, Jochen. I can’t stand the conceit when actors classify each other into A, B, C and D categories and then play the role but don’t want to be seen with the others. I’ll work with anyone. Fassbinder himself discovered his actors in the most unexpected places, like Armin Meier, Jochen’s character, in Munich’s nightlife.

Mr. Masucci, how does it feel to play opposite your partner with such monstrosity, such cruelty, such abrupt coldness, as you do as Fassbinder?
OM: I resisted the role for a long time – I didn’t prepare myself either, I have to admit. I knew Fassbinder, saw a few films, but only started to deal intensively with him during the last week before shooting began. I was afraid to approach his monstrous personality. Fassbinder was extremely disagreeable to me. I remember the first day of shooting: I sat in makeup for two hours. Oskar wanted to get started, we didn’t have much time, and now everyone wanted to see Fassbinder. They put me on a pedestal and expected – He’s gonna raise hell now! And I knew the more I dish out, the more I’ll have to take.

What did Fassbinder have to take?
OM: Most of all unrequited love. His life is an incredible love story. The love he was always looking for was associated with sex, violence and money for him. His unfulfilled longing, the attempt to portray an ordinary family, and wallowing in his struggle against ordinariness, which he nevertheless somehow attained.

We rarely see a love story about men in the movies.
JS: I think gay lives are often portrayed only through sex, but rarely through love. In our first scene together, we have sex on a pinball machine. Fassbinder starts crying and I immediately ask him, “Hey, what’s wrong? Can I help?” It gets tender right away.

Mr. Masucci, it’s also new for you to play these sex scenes.
OM: In retrospect, I have to say that I’ve never had as many nude and sex scenes as in this film. Oskar says he’s no longer interested in male-female stories; they’re so cliché. The moment you approach love between men, the old parameters no longer apply. You have nothing to refer to because it’s totally new. I thought that was great. To search for the love there and play that. The images don’t have as many subtexts.
JS: For me they might have had subtexts, the images. (Laughs)

Mr. Schropp, a year before filming began, in 2018, you came out as gay. Did you think that by playing this role your coming out would be visualized or realized in images so to speak?
JS: At the time I thought, “Okay, my coming out will have slammed a few doors,” but this door opened and it’s the most demanding role I’ve ever had the privilege to play. I’m so grateful for that. Nobody would have proposed me for the role if I hadn’t come out.

You’re both at turning points in your careers. Mr. Masucci, since you played Hitler in “Look Who’s Back” five years ago, you’ve been very successful, for example with the series “Dark” and “4 Blocks.” Next, you’ll be acting in an international blockbuster. How does this evolution feel at 51?
OM: For me it’s as if I’ve been set free. I worked in theatre for 30 years. I played the entire gamut of roles – the whole educated middle class – that I wasn’t born into. And I, a guest worker child, ended up at the Burgtheater. That did make me proud. But in theatre there’s always a great deal of dependency – on artistic directors, on directors, on the company. The step I took, closing the door to the theatre behind me, gave me the chance to see myself in a completely new way – to look at myself through a kaleidoscope and then only take on roles I really like and want to see myself in. I long thought the time wasn’t right for someone like me.


When Rainer Werner Fassbinder died in 1984 at the age of 37, he left 44 films behind that today seem like a separate chapter in German film history. RWF’s escapades, outbursts of anger and love affairs are almost better known than his films. Director Oskar Roehler traces his career without giving in to idol worship.

“Schwules Leben wird nach außen oft nur über Sex dargestellt, aber selten über Liebe” by Ulf Pape, 9 Sept. 2020, GQ Magazine Germany, translated and published with permission.

*Oliver Masucci is also one of the leads in our co-presentation of another Oscar submission long list film, "When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit".

still: Jochen Schropp, Oliver Masucci in "Enfant Terrible" (2020);
source: Weltkino Filmverleih, DFF, © Bavaria Filmproduktion